The book of the banned.
If you don't understand what this is, consider yourself lucky.
Pointless- Incapable of participating in debate without getting far too emotionally involved. Mormons came to debate, and I got letters from her roommate saying that it was affecting her health, although I question whether a "roommate" could have figured the board and the pm out so quickly. Always good for a letter over our heads, which we said time and again was bannable. Unanimous decision of the admins.
Fruity- Ditto on most of that. Always good for sending screenshots over our heads, again, we always said all along that was bannable. Theorized many times that a "trad takeover" was in the works and simply took up an inordinate amount of precious time. I don’t remember the vote, probably 2 to 1.
and Gloom - This poster claimed he had "events from his past which made him impolite". Uh huh. Whatever. Durring the Terry Schaivo drama, this poster put up a public poll, the topic of which was whether another board member should be killed. No vote taken, I banned him myself.
Mr. Vortex, the Flying Pig- This person refused to follow the guidance of the Admins on where topics should be posted. Consistently. During those times when he did post things in the proper place, he manipulated one admin into allowing outrageous and stupid topics. Considering how sensitive traditionalism is as a topic on a board for converts, this person made moderating those topics almost impossible by insisting that a program designed to prevent those topics interfering with conversions was “censorship” perpetrated against him by nefarious trad conspirators. Banned. 3 to 1 decision of the Admins.
Mr Mirror. What can I say except we were not the only Catholic board who banned this guy. 12,000+ posts, the vast majority of which contained the very same phrase, over and over. He accused all traditional Catholics of being sedevacantists, which rendered him simply unfit to participate in debate against such people. This necessitated removing him from any such debates. When I attempted this, he became belligerent and disobeyed most of the orders given to him by all of the admins. We always said that repeated rule-breaking would result in banning. It did. 2 Admins voting yea, one abstaining.
S – This person became incensed that any of his posts would ever be moved from one forum to another. He would actually verbally abuse admins just for moving his posts, including outright insults. He also kept multiple user accounts, but apparently he was being grandfathered-in on this violation. In any case, a person who proves themselves to be so volatile and cannot accept even thread-moving has no place posting on a ministry-oriented board. (Also, it was this incident which spawned the very tough rules about listening to admins and being patient about moved posts)
Kreeftfan - This one was ideological. This poster was obsessed with sex, and books could be written about the freudian implications of his posts. He was scandalous in the extreme, despite being polite to the point of meekness. He committed no egregious offenses during the months I administered, but we discussed his career and decided, as a group, that he was a huge impediment to conversion. 2 yea, one abstaining.
Bagdhad/Mexico – This person had been admitted by previous administrations into lofty areas and was privy to deep discussions of sensitive and advanced Catholic topics. This was despite the fact that he was convinced that God enjoys killing his pet cats. Uncatechized is the polite way to put it. Obviously, it was not appropriate for him to be anywhere except a forum about “Catholic basics” and anyone with so little grasp of basic Christian principles needed close watch. When we disciplined him for inappropriate material posted, we were treated to a hate campaign including the colorful phrase “nazi assholes” to describe the admins. Banned, obviously. 2 to 1.
(e) – The poet. Most of his work was cute and kind of funny, but when he started posting things which sounded like numerology in the Basic forum, that was too much. When confronted, he suggested a hiatus. I agreed.
The financial expert- This guy apparently has used board space to sell insurance or something for a long time. He’s also got a problem with the Roman Rite and a chip on his shoulder. I banned him for refusing to submit to moderation. It was a split decision among the admins, 1 to 1 with 1 abstaining, but a person who posts inappropriate topics in inappropriate fora just to prove that Admins can’t control him is more trouble than he is worth, and ALL of the admins agreed that was his program. So I banned him. 1 to 1 with one abstaining.
The Couple – These two were and I suppose are legendary. They were always in trouble on the board for something and never gave the administration a moment of peace, long since before I got there. That was strike one. Being cafeteria Catholics, and very visible ones who were always standing next to the dead body, was strike two. Being discovered trying to convince people to dissent from the Church and sin in private messages was strike three. I didn’t figure SR wanted his bandwidth used, literally for years, by people intent on keeping others from converting fully into the Church. Banned, obviously. Unanimous.
The Ambassador – The ambassador personally didn’t do anything wrong before he was banned. He was found to be in close association (apparently) with a banned person (from years back) whom I was under orders to protect the board from. We had seen people’s accounts used by this banned person before, and so there was a de facto policy in place that anyone whose account might be hijacked by the banned person was expected to cut ties with him. Then they could be re-instated. The Ambassador, however, didn’t even give us the chance to explain. Within hours of deactivating his account, he had threatened legal action (Legal Action!) against the DCF if he didn’t get immediately reinstated. Banned. 2 yes with one abstaining.
The Servant – Unanimous decision of the admins to ban for passing along privileged information to banned individuals.
The Dragon – Banned for letting banned members (from years back) use his account. Unanimous decision.
Charismatic73 – This person meant well, but was frequently unintelligible, and had a habit of accosting new male converts with her prophetic knowledge that they would become priests. When disciplined, she mounted massive retaliatory campaigns which inevitable got nasty. Unanimous to ban.
The Hacker – An IT professional who associated closely with banned individuals (from years back). Also apparently messed around with the board, as in “hacked in”. All the admins were unanimous to ban, but we disagreed on whether it should be immediate or whether we should wait due to fear of retaliation.
The Rabbi – This guy posted excerpts from Judaism nearly every day. He treated the board as his own Jewish blog space. I was given the task of explaining to him that he needed to find another outlet. For my touble, I got a petulant and childish response, and he left. Not banned.
That’s about it. If anyone remembers another one I was involved in, please remind me. I think the rest belong to other Admins. The point of posting this is to show that these bannings (as SC said MANY times) were the result of discussion by the admins for real offenses and problems. The fact that the previous administration had let things become very lax is the reason the house had to be cleaned up. Now you know. If you look, the people above run the gamut: Protestants, Liberal Catholics, Very Conservative Catholic, Eastern Rite, Jewish etc. None of this was personal, although I admit I disliked a couple of them very, very much and was glad to see them go - however, I disliked other people (you know who you are) even more but never bothered them because they didn't cause problems.
That ought to clear that up.
31 Comments:
Heck, that's hardly any. And all for good reason too.
Just realized. SC agreed to at least half of those bannings (unless she was the only one who ever voted nay or abstained).
While I think The Board has done a lot of good, and while I think it was a good help to me (for a time), in retrospect the best times of my spiritual life are when I was abstaining from it (such as this past Lent).
Ditto to that comment, LJD.
At least now the silly claim that the exiles had banned people excessively and without merit can be put to rest.
Oh yeah, and isn't it ironic that nearly as many people have been banned or left the Board over this current "moderator dispute" as had been banned over the past year--by the supposedly harsh rule of the exiled admins.
Well, no names were used and so people who were not part of all this have no reason to pursue this to find out who's who. I'm walking what I well know is a fine line here, trying to justify my actions in the face of outrageous accusations while at the same time offer ing something sort of like protection to the innocent. I realize that I'm not going to succeed completely.
When personal whims of petulant childish despots become the standard of "adminstration", the word becomes twisted out of all meaning. The crimes listed for a majority of these "offenders" show them to have been at the very least stalwart folks who would not submit to your intimidation. We used to call these kind of people heroes, or even martyrs.
+ Pointless and Fruity went over your heads. Boo hoo hoo, if you'd done your jobs right that wouldn't have been necessary and if you didn't then that is precisely the action to have taken.
+ "and Gloom" has every right to be an ass but the threatening post should have been removed, not the poster (unless there was reasonable concern that he/she could have carried out the threat).
+ Mr. Vortex seems a pain in the backside but you folks certainly fed his paranoia re "trad conspirators".
+ As far as Mr. Mirror goes, I don't have a problem with temporary banning for rule-breaking, provided the rules are promenently displayed and equitably applied to all, friend and foe alike.
+ Similarly, S may have been a pain in the other cheek but what troubles me is the "very tough rules about listening to admins". The admin's were obviously rather, shall we say, whimiscal in their rule making and enforcement (which seems to point more to personality conflict than effective administration) so granting themselves more power via "tough rules" would have a rather chilling effect on a bulletin board which is counter to any boards primary purpose: the sharing of ideas.
+ Okay, you admit that Kreeftfan was banned for his/her politely expoused ideas?! Yikes, it was dictatorship then, wasn't it? As you present yourselves, I'm thinking Bagdhad/Mexico was spot on calling you folks "nazi assholes".
+ At least you seemed to have handled (e) correcly: you came to a mutual agreement of a hiatus.
+ Also, I would agree with the banning of "the financial expert". Using a board for an advertising venue.
+ You banned the Ambassador for associations OUTSIDE of the board?! Good heavens, man, what's next? Banning for drinking lite beer? That goes WAY beyond the pervue of an admin.
+ The Servant should've been cut off from the admins but banning for all contact with the board is a bit extreme.
+ No board I know would tolerate letting others use their account. You were right to ban the Dragon.
+ ...and I really don't care about the rest of them.
You have obviously tried to justify your acts but they do not stand up to objective analysis. As most of the admins were in agreement then you all were guilty of letting your (confessed) personal dislikes poison your adminstrative duties. You're protestation that "none of this was personal" has been proven as obvious BS or at the very least pitiable self-deception. If you all worked for me I would've fired you long, long ago.
PS: If "The Couple" refers to the Celtic woman and her husband the Swordsman, then you are guilty of outright lying. Never, NEVER did they try to convince others to dissent from the Church--which, btw, is merely your unqualified-to-make definition--but merely shared ideas common and promoted within the CC. In confusing your interpretation with the Church's actual stance and applications, you have indeed created your own magisterium and set yourselves up as little popes.
Furthermore it was the BLATENTLY disproportionate application of various rules upon these two (and not upon others within your circle) that was the most damning dereliction of your administrative duties. Particularly troubling in that regard is just how you got a hold of private correspondence. Not that you are interpreting such PMs correctly, but that you would violate people's accounts in a such a way proves you unworthy of your position now or ever. In spreading such lies and misrepresentations about these people and others to better your own position you are guilty of egregious sin.
It is not uncommon for people receiving offensive PMs to pass them on to the administrators. There's nothing "troubling" about it at all. One should keep that in mind before one abuses a board's private messaging system.
Nice red herring, ljd, but that is irrelevant to this particular case. As the term is generally used in BBSes, "offensive" refers to foul language or sexual or threatening harrassment. Nothing that offensive was ever PM-ed by the individuals in question and your implication of such is further testimony to the self-delusion of all involved. The offenses perceived were ideological or more likely personal dislike.
This board was an evangelistic tool. It's sole purpose was to further the conversion of people to the Catholic faith. It wasn't meant to be a personal blogging station for anyone. It wasn't meant to be a home for anyone (although it became that for many of us). It was meant to be an apologetic tool for the Catholic Church.
No one had any right there and it doesn't really matter if one thinks that the rules weren't evenly applied. They were applied at the whim of the mods...and very conservatively applied I might add. There are far more people out there that deserved banning (IMHO) than got banned.
If the Church itself had indeed sponsored and supported the board in question, you might have a point as to the mission but you still have not supported the poor quality of the evangelism there. HOWEVER, as the Church has NOT sanctioned any such mandate, you merely end up looking like a fool.
Honestly, silence would be your most effective response at this point.
So the only ones that can evangelize are persons or organizations that are directly appointed by or directly sanctioned by the Church?
As for looking like a fool one could save the same thing for someone who only has "serious reservations" about allowing a non-Catholic to distribute Holy Communion.
"+ Pointless and Fruity went over your heads. Boo hoo hoo, if you'd done your jobs right that wouldn't have been necessary and if you didn't then that is precisely the action to have taken."
And just where do you come off with that opinion? No webboard that I've been on has found it acceptable to go over a mod or admin's head for anything other than abuse of mod powers, which did not happen in my experience.
" "and Gloom" has every right to be an ass but the threatening post should have been removed, not the poster (unless there was reasonable concern that he/she could have carried out the threat)."
Death threats are unacceptable on any board. If there were a karma system on that board like there was on the old AmbrosiaSW boards then perhaps he could have simply been karmaslapped, but as there wasn't, the response was simple.
"+ Okay, you admit that Kreeftfan was banned for his/her politely expoused ideas?! Yikes, it was dictatorship then, wasn't it? As you present yourselves, I'm thinking Bagdhad/Mexico was spot on calling you folks "nazi assholes"."
Kreeftfan is someone I'd like to have banned from another board where the two of us post. He is such a scandal when dealing with Protestant and Orthodox posters that it is ridiculous. And I was there with Bagdhad's banning, and trust me, he deserved it. He was picking a fight with the mods.
"+ You banned the Ambassador for associations OUTSIDE of the board?! Good heavens, man, what's next? Banning for drinking lite beer? That goes WAY beyond the pervue of an admin."
Drinking light beer is anathema to the Catholic faith :P
What he was banned for, if I'm reading this correctly, was for threatening to sue the board over deactivation of his account (the deactivation was because of the association, and a justified deactivation too)
"+ Similarly, S may have been a pain in the other cheek but what troubles me is the "very tough rules about listening to admins". The admin's were obviously rather, shall we say, whimiscal in their rule making and enforcement (which seems to point more to personality conflict than effective administration) so granting themselves more power via "tough rules" would have a rather chilling effect on a bulletin board which is counter to any boards primary purpose: the sharing of ideas."
Where do you get off with that little rant? Becoming belligerant about topics being moved to their proper forum is childish, and grounds for banning as a troll on most, if not all, boards.
"+ The Servant should've been cut off from the admins but banning for all contact with the board is a bit extreme."
Passing along privileged info to banned, especially if it is of the sort that I'm thinking of, was listed as a bannable offense.
" Never, NEVER did they try to convince others to dissent from the Church--which, btw, is merely your unqualified-to-make definition--but merely shared ideas common and promoted within the CC"
First off, I'd like to note that that ban was a unanimous one, you'd have to complain about the current board administration as well. Second, Jimbo is an RCIA instructor, and quite a good one at that if I remember correctly. Are you going to argue that he is qualified to teach the faith, but not to determine whether something is dissent from the Faith? Finally, whether an idea is common or not is irrelevant. What matters is whether it is orthodox or not.
My dear Kokopelli,
I sense some deep resentment, perhaps because you and your wife, the "Couple" of renown, were also banned for, shall we say, misuse of bandwidth?
Move on.
Well, I'm in the nice position of 1.Being quite proud of being involved in banning the couple in question and happy if I had been the only admin to wish to do so but 2.only one of 4 who agreed that it was time to axe them.
Anyone who has a problem with me banning people who were serious and constant impediments to conversion has the same problem with the current administration.
But all of that os sort of silly when it has been a constant principle of that board, since the beginning, that some ideologies simply are not allowed - from Satanism to Sedevacantism, some people just never were fit to post, and that was in place LONG before I came on the scene.
Sorry, Kevin, you're not scoring any points here.
I probably should have listed this, but only several of these were listed as "permanent" when levied.
Pointless and Fruity had used up all nine of their lives before I ever was an admin. There was little left to do with them but impose a permanent ban when their festivities started again, as usual. Kreeftfan, as Paul noted above, is notorious and *nobody* wants his "help" on any apologetics board - that was intended to be permanent too. But people like Gloom and the Financial expert weren't permanent, neither was the Ambassador until he went ballistic.
The point of it is that it took either a sustained campaign of working against conversions, or a sustained terror campaign against an admin, or a tremendous nuclear blowout of a tantrum to merit even a temporary ban. It's true that the number of bans, both temporary and permanent, went up during my tenure, but I have already explained that the situation was toxic when I arrived, with the Admin begging for "bodyguards" to protect her from people with axes to grind. I took a look and said "These people have no right to use this board like the wall at the monkey house and throw feces at it all day, we have better things to spend our time on" and I asked for a decision to ban.
The place was noticeably more peaceful after some of the really bad actors were made to leave. There were probably still a few more people who would have needed at least a temporary vacation to make Administering that board less than a full-time job, but maybe not. In any case, it's more a question of whether people who give up hours and hours out of their days to help run a board like that are *required* to constantly take abuse from people who apparently cannot be happy.
I say no. I was quite happy to give them the boot, like I tried to give seriously compromised Admins the boot. If the current administration disagrees, so be it, they now have to deal with their decisions - but all of the conspiracy mongering is just stupid. Really stupid.
OH - And it was the current administration that *taught* me to look at the private message system as a regular part of keeping tabs on the board. Otheriwse, I would never have known to do so. I had to be taught the process. Yeah, some of those were juicy. The pm system *never* deletes...even if the user thinks it does. Never presume you have privacy on someone else's message system.
The whole banning issue is such a red herring anyway. The current administration was on board with all of these bannings. They were only allowed back as an act of grace from one of the same former admins as was active in issuing the bans. Had he not reinstated these members, they would still be banned.
The current administration has simply chosen to use the vast majority of the board member's ignorance about the issues behind the bannings to prop up a smarting ego.
But the placing of bans on these individuals has absolutely nothing to do with the controversy "between moderators" as the board owner refers to it. The controversy is entirely over the suitability of the current administration for their job and their propensity for causing scandal to the faith.
To be perfectly clear, Siggy was not demoted because of any disagreement over who should or should not have been banned. Anyone who thinks that needs to be disabused of that notion.
Nice red herring, ljd, but that is irrelevant to this particular case.
No, I don't think so. If it were irrelevant then I daresay you wouldn't have raised the issue.
As the term is generally used in BBSes, "offensive" refers to foul language or sexual or threatening harrassment. Nothing that offensive was ever PM-ed by the individuals in question and your implication of such is further testimony to the self-delusion of all involved.
I do not use "offensive" in such an exclusive sense. These things are small potatoes compared to the solicitation of dissent and sin. Whether such things are common among members of the Church is irrelevant. You have already stressed the need for laypeople to have humility when they give advice to other laypeople, and to rely on the recognized authorities rather than their own opinions. It's not enough that certain opinions are common. Who are the bishops who support them?
Yes, the banning issue is a red herring, but it's an interesting one, because it speaks to the fact that there were not really "two sides" to the administration of the message board.
It's true that I did not entirely trust the current administration, mainly because I think the current administration likes drama and strife and will actualy work to create it if things get boring.
However, for a long, long time, the administration worked together pretty well, supported each other's decisions, and the majority of the controversial bannings were done in that environment, as were the checkings of "private" messages.
If I'm lying, then the opposite must be true: The current administration must be incredibly weak and unable to stand up to anyone - so compromised that virtually anyone can become an admin and do whatever they wish without any protest from the Admin.
I'll let y'all decide which is true:
Do you currently have an Admin so weak and compromised that virtually anyone without credentials can take over the message board and go on a reign of terror without any protest?
Or do you have an Admin who was complicit with all of these bannings and was onboard for all of this, and was even the teacher for all of these tactics which everyone is screaming about now?
Either one or the other is true.
Makes you wonder who to "support", doesn't it? Maybe no one should be "supporting" anyone, and maybe no one should have been fired or banned without a hearing.
Several disjointed points to be made:
+ The L'enfant Terrible has demonstrated time and again MAJOR anger issues (and proud of them!) and an unparalleled lack of ability to even contemplate the possibility of his misinterpretation/misapplication of dogma. That he is allowed to lead an RCIA class speaks more to the scarcity of qualified laity than it does to his "qualifications".
+ It is a great disservice to converts to blind them from various "ideologies". Part of understanding what Catholocism is, is knowing what it is not. Yes, I recognize the irony you folks probably believe you see here but as I have derived a great deal of my understanding from my priest and deacon (who I trust more than any laity for understanding the Church) I hold that my beliefs are still under the great umbrella of Catholocism. I think we differ on just how big an umbrella that is.
+ L'enfant et al seek a board where all are in lock-step with your beliefs and any question is seen as "solicitation of dissent and sin". First of all, as I've said before that is an outright lie. Furthermore, equating the defense of one's position with the solicitation of defection to that side reveals an incredible simple-mindedness and lack of critical thinking which will lead you down the road to facism (never mind the sin of false witness which many here have repeatedly committed). Have you no faith in your own argument that you must silence ALL opposition?
+ Bekahs' separation of the banning and the Mod Battles is duly noted as I already knew that anyway.
+ Do not for a moment think that I believe all the guilty are gathered here. Indeed there remains at least two pernicious evil-doers, one only slightly diminished and one somewhere in the shadows. This in no way excuses the wrongs I've enumerated here. The highly unethical and un-Christian behavoir with regard to the adminstration of the board is but one side of this. There remains the manipulation and misreprestation of others for personal favor/gain. That board was and is tainted with all of this and the happily naive owner will probably be stained with it as well if only by association.
+ Finally, you cannot imagine how much it pains me to state this but honor demands fairness: the final statement of L'Enfant Terrible holds some worth.
Well, the major problem I have with Kevin's comments is the equation of striving for orthodoxy with fascism.
If there is a "lack of critical thinking" anywhere, I suggest it is with those people who claim to be Catholic without submitting fully to Catholicism. I have strived and will strive against that position because I believe it is harmful. When I teach, it is straight out of the CCC (is my thread on "follow along w/ RCIA" still around?) and not from anything else.
As always, I'm perfectly happy to be scrutinized on my teaching, and you would have had a ready source of info, but my students who were board members are also banned!
However, you didn't answer the question, Kevin:
Is the current administration complicit with all of this you are complaining about - OR - is the current administration so weak, with so many people having influence over it, that it can't keep obvious "fascists" out of power positions?
I wasn't going to continue this but since you asked a direct question... I rarely frequent that board anymore but whenever I do it seems as if the staff changes daily, if not hourly (read: weak). I do suspect equally large heaps of culpability could be spread around to some currently "unscathed". However, from what little time I've spent there, I've noticed an abscence of the chilling pall cast about by the whimsical exercise (read, the "it's okay if my friends flame folks but YOU can't, nyah nyah nyah" attitude) of draconian powers.
In short it is a more welcoming place which, IMHO, is better for tender converts. This does NOT equal a watering down of Catholocism but a more compassionate communication of Catholicism.
And THAT, should be my last word on this (let us all hope, anyway, right?) Have it, folks. Let your venom and lies flow freely here in this backwater blog of hypocritical viciousness dressed up as "piety". But don't fool yourselves into thinking you are a "voice crying out in the wilderness"...you're more akin to whimpering bullies who've been bested by more cunning and pernicious bullies.
HA! More cunning and pernicious bullies! Interesting. Well, I'm used to disagreeing with you and other folks who have a radically different idea of Catholicsm - the USA has been the world center of such debates for 40 years, so we're not breaking new ground.
Steve Ray as a cunning and pernicious bully, that's defintely new, however. Not even any of the "bullies" here has said that.
I don't trust anyone who whines about different "ideologies" being suppressed, but can't even manage to spell Catholicism right.
And kokopelli, if simple questioning or defense of one's non-Catholic faith was seen by Jimbo as simply wrong and bannable, then there's probably half a dozen people that I can think of off-hand that would have been banned, yet were not.
"read, the "it's okay if my friends flame folks but YOU can't, nyah nyah nyah" attitude"
I have never seen any flaming on the board. Mind giving examples of it? Feel free to email them to me, me@catholic-cadet.com
point of order: I was NOT referring to SR but to SC, the Dancing Chicken, and his passive-aggressive wife. I believe Mr. Ray to be naively blinded by SC's BS.
You are confused about who you are talking about...
I think I will leave it that way.
Well, thanks for the clarification about who is a pernicious bully and who is being duped by pernicious bullies. It's the first time you and I have ever agreed about anything. See, something good has come of this. ;-)
Let your venom and lies flow freely here in this backwater blog of hypocritical viciousness dressed up as "piety".
Mmm...I'm not especially pious. If I lay claim to any moral high ground it's simply because I've never had cyber sex with anyone. I'll plead guilty to heavy-handedness and merely request that observers remember that I got dropped into a buzzsaw being made an admin when the current administration was under attack and asking for help and protection.
"point of order: I was NOT referring to SR but to SC, the Dancing Chicken, and his passive-aggressive wife. I believe Mr. Ray to be naively blinded by SC's BS."
You'd probably call hippies as bullies if you could get away with it.
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