Friday, May 13, 2005

Why do men hate church?

Amy Welborn et. al. speculate.

But England's Cardinal Heenan understood why all the way back in 1967:
Cardinal Heenan addressed the Synod the day after the experimental Mass had been presented and said he did not know the names of those who had proposed the new Mass but it was clear to him that few of them had ever been parish priests.
    "At home," he said, "it is not only women and children but also fathers of families and young men who come regularly to Mass. If we were to offer them the kind of ceremony we saw yesterday we would soon be left with a congregation of women and children."
He also said we needed more than ever to stress the Real Presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament and that the faithful were growing restless and disturbed by too frequent changes in the Mass. Remember, this was in 1967! He concluded his speech by stating that the Latin tongue must be preserved. "If the Church is to remain truly the Catholic Church it is essential to keep a universal tongue." How tragically prophetic those words were.
Ref: The Development of the Mass Since 1960 (scroll down).

I think, too, that men tend to prefer things to stay the same, while women are more welcoming of change.

I know from my own experience that there is no shortage of men, young and old, assisting at the traditional Mass.


At 10:44 AM, Blogger st_ignatius110 said...

I really and truly beleive alot of the problem in today's culture is the authority of the Church. As my FIL says, " I don't need to go to Church. I pray at home and I love God. I know I am going to Heaven." That is the general attitude among men..and many men that have that attitude are not leading there family at home let alone at Church. I truly beleive that many men who do not go to Church while their wives do are not leaders in there home. I know this is the case with my FIL. It is my MIL who makes the decisions, who governs the money, who takes care of him...when it should be vice versa. The problem is not that he does not love or care for his family..he does...but the problem is that he was never ever taught to be a man, to be a leader in the world or with his family.

At 11:11 AM, Blogger dcs said...

Actually, men in general have no problem obeying authority. That is why St. Paul commands husbands to love and wives to obey, because men find it easy to obey but not so easy to love, and women find it easy to love but not so easy to obey. If men aren't obedient to an authority, what we need to ask isn't "why not?" but "what is that authority doing that makes men lose respect for it?"

At 11:26 AM, Blogger Chad said...

This brings to mind CS Lewis' essay "The Abolition of Man," where he describes the modern problem of "men without chests." "Modern" man has been emasculated, and I honestly think the problem is the whole drive for "equality" of the sexes. While we may be equal in the eyes of God, men and women are not equivalent. They have been forcibly made so by the modern experiment, which has led to the chaos that is the "post-Vatican II" church and the world of 2005.

We men must recover our "chests"--but how?

At 12:08 PM, Blogger st_ignatius110 said...

I beleive all men and women struggle with authority. If we did not then we would go to Church simply because Jesus says to and the Church says to.
I do agree that "equality" has been pushed to mean that women are just like men..not just equal to men. I am getting the book The Privilege of Being a Woman and cannot wait to read it. It discusses the problems with women trying to be equal to men by actually imitating men. I agree this is a huge problem in society. The other problem I least in my that men are not taught how to be men or fathers. They have no idea what it means to lead ones family..and the mothers are forced to do so.

At 1:54 PM, Blogger Chad said...

Iggy, I think that the two problems we're talking about: feminism and the loss of education and instruction of men, are completely intertwined. I'm not sure you can say that one leads to the other, such as the problem that men are not being taught how to be men leads to mothers being forced to lead the family. While, that may be true in some instances, I wonder whether the lack of education of men is also a result of the brainwashing that we've been subject to in our culture, where the prevailing opinion is that men and women aren't all that different after all.

I guess it all boils down to the rejection of authority in its traditional forms, not being willing to contemplate that perhaps the billions of people living over thousands of years in those traditional forms might have been right.

At 2:34 PM, Blogger st_ignatius110 said...

I agree totally with that. I do know that in my culture, not sure about anyone else's, that the mother is generally the head of the family. Men are not being the physical nor spiritual leaders of their families. It is the mother that holds the family together. Again, only speaking of my Hispanic culture.

At 2:37 PM, Blogger BekahS. said...

Perhaps it is that because women can be just like men, men aren't really needed at all. And if men aren't needed, than they are content to go about pursuing their own desires in solitude while letting women play at being men. At least for the moment.

I am a firm believer that women need to reclaim honor in what it is to be woman, and likewise to reaffirm to our men that we want them to be men. We must be counter-cultural.

At 3:25 PM, Blogger st_ignatius110 said...

I agree totally Bekah.

I just think that other cultures need to be taken into consideration as well. I mean, it is totally different in the Hispanic culture then in the white culture. With the Hispanics most of the women are not trying to be is just that somehow there role got reversed..I dont know just did. It is a matriarchal system...but I have no idea how that could be turned around.

At 2:06 PM, Blogger BekahS. said...

I really don't know enough about the Hispanic culture to be able to make an educated guess as to why their culture has developed role reversal. From what I've witnessed, "Mama" is a unifier in the family, however there is also a strong element of submission to the male authority. At least, in the birthing room, women are encouraged to be silent and strong, and prove themselves to their men. Perhaps, in the hispanic cultures, men exert their authority in a different way than europeans expect, a more subtle or intricate blending of roles, perhaps?

At 9:40 AM, Blogger st_ignatius110 said...

Perhaps it depends on which Hispanic culture we are talking about.What I mean by this is that there is a HUGE difference between Hispanics from Mexico and then those Hispanics who have been in America for several generations. My family is the one who has been here for several generations. There is a really big difference in the family life as well. I really dont know though.

At 10:28 AM, Blogger dcs said...

My family is the one who has been here for several generations.

Perhaps they've picked up on American ideas of "empowerment"?

It's also difficult to speculate wihtout knowing your family situation. For example, women often take prominent roles in families because the men aren't around.

At 11:08 AM, Blogger st_ignatius110 said...

But see, that is just it. The men are around...they just do not take charge. It is the women who are financially stable...the women who take the kids to church...etc. If the woman does not do these things then it wont get done. Maybe it is the fact that many men are on drugs, many men were not raised to be men, many men are not taught how to be fathers...and then maybe it is deeper then that..still not sure but I am speculating on this some more.

At 5:15 PM, Blogger BekahS. said...

Just to clarify, the cultures I was referring to when I mentioned birthing practices are recently emigrated populations.

For hispanic cultures which have been in America for quite some time, it may be nearly impossible to determine what is true hispanic culture and what has been influenced by the larger American culture in which it is immersed.

At 5:34 PM, Blogger st_ignatius110 said...

That is true Bekah.


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